Sample Relay Challenge (Max's Bentley Piano)

Great to know about the midi! Turns out, I hadn’t paid enough attention to the starting point, so I’m very glad you were able to get it lined up. the first midi point should sit on the grid, and all the samples should line up so that they start precisely at 36000 samples behind, one quarter note, also on the grid. I placed them all individually. If the resolution in your photo is quarter notes, pull the samples back to be on the grid. The length was Christian’s directive in his video calling for help.

One note, A3, is completely out of phase in both quiet and loud layers.

I found a Logic using friend to render the Kate tracks for me. Release triggers are coming soon.

I did a lot of experimenting with Studio One’s normalizing behavior. Putting more about that in the general discussion thread.
: )

So, applying a limiter and bouncing the files does indeed improve the different note levels, although it needs more experimentation using more than one pass per file or section.
I’ve seen the other thread but not read it yet. Will do :slight_smile:

Oh, and I realized my project had a 3/4 tempo instead of a 4/4. I think the sync is ok now.

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After some tests mixing limiter and general NR (just to avoid horrible noises) I got something that could work, but I need someone to listen to it because at this point I’m not sure if it’s too much or needs more tweaking:

Individual NR is still required, but the general noise is mostly gone and the levels sound ok.

About the midi, I didn’t found a way to convert it to hitpoints. Does someone know how to do that using Cubase?

Hey all.
Here is link to file for Release Triggers. Sorry it took so long. Stereo file is merged. There is a midi track again to assist.
I did not know what to do with the pedal noises so I have left them as is, but include them so you won’t have to hunt for them in the original file if you want them.
: )

Here is my version of Bentley!
All three round robins, two velocity layers and the release triggers.
Assembled in Studio One, but .multisample can be read by Kontakt and Logic and many other DAW’s sample instrument players.
I did a light pass of noise reduction. Tuned and leveled the samples. They’re kind of long, but another friend said he liked the sustain.
It plays too fast for Christian, but I made it with the response time I wanted.
Very curious what you think.
: )


Good to see some more progress on this! :slight_smile:

@JustLisa I am struggling to get Kontakt to read the .multisample file you have uploaded. Any ideas how to get Kontakt to play ball with this as I’m eager to try it out!

Apologies. I just had a friend try the file in Kontakt, Reaper and Logic and it won’t load into any of them! That’s just plain wrong and I have gone to Presonus forums to get to the bottom of it. FWIW, he says the samples sound good!
Thank you for trying!
I will be back with something that works soon, I hope.

I found that a .multisample file is in fact just a zip file. (if you add .zip to the end of the name, it will open). Inside are all the wav files and an xml file. Looking in the xml file, I noticed code like this:

	<sample file="04 E0 - 414 L1.wav" gain="2.5982868671417236328125" sample-start="30000" sample-stop="828000">
		<loop start="0" stop="0" mode="off"/>
		<key root="28" tune="1000.01336669921875" low="27" high="28"/>
		<velocity low="76" high="127" low-fade="15"/>

I noticed the codes “gain” and “tune”. Do numbers other than “0” mean that the samples were tuned and level matched inside the sampler, rather than as part of the wav file? I think I can translate the xml file into sfz for the sforzando sampler, but I’m not sure about the tuning and level matching.

yes. I tuned them and leveled the files in the sampler. I also adjusted all the volume fades for the layers to make smooth transitions.
I have another friend attempting to translate to EXS also.
I’ve also been told that my start points maybe did not translate correctly either.
Still waiting for info from Presonus forums and will be filing support ticket if I don’t get concrete info soon.
: )
thank you!

I have an SFZ piano coded using the samples from the “Bentley Four beta 1.1.multisample” you created. The samples sound lovely.
The one issue I have is how to replicate the tuning you did. I’m seeing a tune high value of “3000.011474609375” and a tune low value of “-999.9990234375”. I’m used to dealing with cents, which would be 100 cents per semitone. I’m not sure what these values represent. Do you have any insight? Thanks.

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Thank you for feedback about the samples! I’ve never done any noise reduction before. There are a couple of odd clicks in a couple of the samples, but it’s the beta so I wasn’t worried about that. I don’t know if the info says, but the round robin layers I set up to be random.
Also – the start times are way too long. I would really love to know what it should be roughly. Release triggers were uneven and too loud in general I think.
I’m not sure about the tuning info. I will look into it.
: )

I’ll have to look into SFZ Random Robin, I didn’t catch that in the code, so thanks for the heads up. As for the start times, the code has between sample-start=“28000” and sample-start=“30000” for the notes, and sample-start=“15000” for the release triggers.

I found 36000 to work well on the notes in SFZ as far as responsiveness and 13000 on the releases, though I may revisit that.

I had a complaint that the action was too slow! And it starts about a quarter note behind pressing a key. I can’t play quickly and that’s kind of a problem, I think. I did some experimenting with midi, recording or rendering the files and looking. Fascinating. Compared to a ‘professional’ sample based piano – it’s a pretty significant difference.
Great to know that the info in the file corresponds to the numbers I expedited.
About the tuning – the -999.99 translates to a value of -.1 st in the editing window which translates to -1 cent in the player view of the instrument.
So Bentley was a little flat in places – as much as 3 cents!
: )


I just saw this and downloaded to create the Kontakt version, but now I’m trying to make sense of the audio files and have a few doubts:

  1. I thought the “rts” files were the release triggers isolated but, when listening to “01C0 rts”, in the “(02)” file I hear the note and then the RT, and when listening to “(04)” and “(06)” just the RT. Also, the same happens with the “12D#3” files, but there is no “rts” string in the file names, so I’m not sure what to make of that.
  2. What are the “414 L” (1, 2, 3) and “414 Q” (1, 2, 3) files? I’m guessing 1, 2, 3 are the RRs, and Q and L are soft and hard, but just to be sure.
  3. Are the Coles included?
  4. I think the “alt” files replace the “slot” of the “default” take because the sound was better. Is that right?
  5. The “pick up” files. I’m puzzled. There are 6 D#5 files (3xQ and 3xL) and another 3 “rts pick up” files.

I feel like I’m missing something obvious, but I can’t figure it out.


If you opened (unzipped) the .multisample file, there is a multisample.xml that lays out the specs. That is what I used.

Yeah, I saw the XML, but the difference between the 02 and the 04/06 files puzzled me because I’m a bit extreme about structure/file/naming normalization, and one thing lead to another…
After reading it more carefully (and ignoring mi OCD :wink:) I see what @JustLisa did here.

We now have a page for Max’s piano on the website, featuring the version Christian put together for Christmas. It would be great to put up the community version also - do we think that’s in a state we can use?


I’m afraid my Kontakt version is not ready.
Well, the instrument I uploaded in October just needs testing, and maybe fixing if a bug is found, but I haven’t had time to retouch @JustLisa 's files, and I really want to standardize the files length/function before adding the sounds to the engine.
Nothing wrong with her files anyway, so anyone can add the sounds to the instrument and make it work.
If someone does it I’ll solve any bugs found, but I want to create a version with strict normalization if I can, to allow, among other things, future experimental expansions like a wip (and weird) piano-legato or an organic sequencer.

Looking and sounding great! I quite like Christian’s build of this. With a little ‘splosh’ it’s character is coming out nicely I reckon.

Currently away from my main machine with Kontakt so I can’t see for myself but do we have a version up with one of the background that @angeruroth made? That might be a nice finishing touch!

Hi everyone!

I just made a new version using only the 414 PICK UP original samples, and uploaded a quick test improv:

I’ve been postponing this for so long that I finally realized I wanted to start from scratch with the source sounds, so that’s what I’ve done.

Nothing wrong with the instrument that was uploaded in December. On the contrary, it sounds really nice. This is just something different.
There are so many possibilities, so many variations, so many things one could try, and so many decisions and compromises… I think one could create thousands of different instruments from the same source samples, and that’s what this new little instrument is about.

So, before submitting the instrument I’d like to know what you think, and the best way to know is to try, so I’ve uploaded it here: