Sample Relay Challenge (Max's Bentley Piano)


#21

I’ve tweeted to Max and Christian to see if they can help on picking out the comp.


#22

Hey everyone!

Happy to try and answer any questions there might be on this! @StephenTallamy mentioned on Twitter about comp takes…?

Putting out fires here there and everywhere at the minute but will do my best to help! :slight_smile:

Glad to see I’m not the only one who has water in their piano too ha!


#23

Hi. I asked a Cubase using friend to try opening my AAF file and he got an error. Has anyone tried?
I want to fix it and try again if needed.
Thanks


#24

I think the AAF format can be opened using Nuendo but not Cubase, although my DAW is Cubase Pro 8 and I can’t be 100% sure about newer versions.


#25

Cubase 10 Pro has got support for AAF files


#27

I’m also interested in contributing to any part of this, I’m just not quite too sure where we are at in the process currently. It looks like we still need to make a stereo track, then continue? Or was that already done by @JustLisa


#28

Thinking about the Kontakt Instrument, I’ve mocked up a range of groups that could be created, but all this is susceptible of being changed, a lot. It’s just a first draft of what we could do.

Following this mock up:
The groups would define how we use the layers.
The Far groups could be removed if there is no info about that, using the included reverb to compensate the lack of data.
The Afterglow could be fired if the Release slider > 0, controlling that way the length of Afterglow, and firing the rt only if the Release = 0.
The balance between the two mics could be controlled using the Dynamics slider (using p and f like micA and micB).
We could have different numbers of rr for each layer, although that would increase the complexity, so I’ve defined 3, plus the rt.

As said earlier, all this can be changed completely to accommodate what we get from the samples.
Like the assumption that we’ll have 3 layers. Maybe we en up with two, or one.
Other things could be removed, like the cyclical variations. I just reused a template from the layers engine.

Layer 0 Close p

0 p rr0 First Round Robin for the p notes in the softer layer
0 p rr1
0 p rr2 Last Round Robin for the p notes in the softer layer
0 p rt The retrigger notes

Layer 0 Close f

0 f rr0
0 f rr1
0 f rr2
0 f rt

Layer 1 Close p

1 p rr0
1 p rr1
1 p rr2
1 p rt

Layer 1 Close f

1 f rr0
1 f rr1
1 f rr2
1 f rt

Layer 2 Close p

2 p rr0
2 p rr1
2 p rr2
2 p rt

Layer 2 Close f

2 f rr0
2 f rr1
2 f rr2
2 f rt

Layer 0 Far p

0 p rr0
0 p rr1
0 p rr2
0 p rt

Layer 0 Far f

0 f rr0
0 f rr1
0 f rr2
0 f rt

Layer 1 Far p

1 p rr0
1 p rr1
1 p rr2
1 p rt

Layer 1 Far f

1 f rr0
1 f rr1
1 f rr2
1 f rt

Layer 2 Far p

2 p rr0
2 p rr1
2 p rr2
2 p rt

Layer 2 Far f

2 f rr0
2 f rr1
2 f rr2
2 f rt
image
Comments and ideas would be very welcome :slight_smile:


#29

So just to make this clear for myself, the bold text represents the layers and the smaller text represents the “groups”? (any time I use these quotes I’m referring to a kontakt group)

So each round-robin sampleset gets its own individual “group”, and then the layers are like larger groups for the “groups”. So each layer might control the same parameters for each set of round-robins. Yea?

A piano that I’ve been working on a couple months for this site uses a similar concept if I understand you correctly.

I think each round-robin should get it’s own kontakt group, odd numbers are good and there’s a built-in kontakt round-robin cycling system that can make this very easy to do. Then our script will control these groups of round-robins as “layers”, in order to ensure they will get the same processing and treatment done to them. It looks like your GUI mock-up offers a visual solution to manipulating these layers as well.

Let me know if I’m getting anything wrong or if you have a comment on these ideas


#30

Yes, one “group” per rr, and one group for the rt.
This pic shows how the “groups” are structured inside Kontakt:
image
To control the round robins I’ve used a single int variable, increasing it every time a key is pressed, because in tests with other instruments the result was the same than using a variable per layer, but I’m not using the built-in system.

I just realized this structure is missing “groups” for the afterglow, but that would only require to add a “group” per layer.


#31

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mQjyP2DyFFUlD1HamNxNuO5mIX9Oxj15
Here is the link to my edited file again.
Still need to know if anyone else can open the AFF export into Protools or Logic.
There are wav files of the organized samples.
I can trouble shoot and upload again, but I need to know if this works.
Thank you!


#32

Hey everyone!

Great progress so far on this. Sorry I can’t be of more help just yet - still absolutely buried with a couple of projects (a nice problem to have really!). Is anyone able to help Lisa with her current query?

Really looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

Still blown away by the community we’re building here :smiley:


#33

Hi!

Just checking if this is alive :wink:

And thinking… maybe a piano doesn’t need 3x2x2 layers (currently I’m using [a] 3 design layers (key speed), [b] 2 for close-far sounds and [c] 2 for the strength (p and f)) so maybe we could use a(0) for the piano itself, a(1) for pads made from the same samples and a(2) for atmospheric sounds.
While [b] and [c] cross fade, [a] is independent and can be locked to all, 0, 1, or 2, so that would be possible, but it’s just an idea. Your thoughts?
And that raises two questions:

  • How many layers do we have per rr?
  • Do we have 3 rrs per key?

Anyway, the sound is very interesting and the things done by @JustLisa are great, so I would really like to know if this is still alive and just moving slowly.


#34

Does this mean you actually were able to open my files and hear them? No one has ever responded yes or no about that.
As I remember there are 3 round robin layers for each of the ff and pp each with a left right and center mic.
there are pp and ff release triggers.
my files were set up so that the ALT tracks were lined up to be substituted for the other tracks because I did not know which were the best 3 to used for several of the takes.
so two layers of volume and 3 layers of round robins was Christian’s intention for this.
Still happy to help and provide any info.
Thanks
: )


#35

I was able to open and hear the .wav files, but my Cubase version is too old to open the other ones.

To start with a minimum viable instrument, I’ll hide this weekend (just hide, not remove) the design layers and upload here that version (without sound, but ready) like this (without blue the RT/afterglow thingy for now):


Would you prefer a crossfade between p and f or a cut, say, about vel=70?

So, please correct me if I’m wrong, next steps would be:

  1. Make stereo track from L/R mics.
  2. Chop the 2 tracks into individual notes with RRs and RTs.
  3. Normalize.
  4. NR.
  5. Make the instrument.

The only thing I can’t do is the NR, but maybe @tikihorea could help with that?

Cheers!


#36

I’m up for doing NR, if it’s still needed.


#37

Hey guys!

Glad to see this is still going :slight_smile: I just wrapped on a couple of big projects last week so let me know what I can do to help!?

Happy to try and chip in where I can!


#38

Hi!

Here is the Kontakt 5.8.1 instrument, ready to add the sounds but untested, including the RT and Afterglow bits:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BXPdFj4t8W2o_Uiz7E_TWmLjVn3vMn38
This is the RAW project with all the files and code opened, so everyone can tweak it and make improvements.

image
The background pic comes from the youtube video, but if you prefer a different one just upload it and I’ll change it.

Cheers!


#39

Looking good so far! :slight_smile:

This is where my lack of Kontakt skills/knowledge becomes frustrating. Hopefully someone else on this thread is able to have a crack at adding audio!?

As for the background pic I will upload a few to the following link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CzoRjNXPZ5qhXomSx1pjiytn-qEiOkR_?usp=sharing

I already put an existing photo in there from an old shoot but it’s perhaps a little self indulgent to include myself in the photo… (which you’ll see from the picture in there now)

Will get out my camera and take some new ones today (without me in) and upload and see what we think.

M


#40

OK I spent a couple of hours shooting some new photos of the Bentley that would be suitable for instrument background… check out the updated drive link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CzoRjNXPZ5qhXomSx1pjiytn-qEiOkR_?usp=sharing

I think 2 or 3 are my favourites, possibly number 2 edging ahead slightly. What do you guys think?


#41

New version, including the sustain pedal (I forgot to add that code before).
Again, untested, so I’m not sure it’s really going to work, but I hope it will :wink:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ve-SuajRND92Yq_Xrfbdz-uaAFPFoRMk

I’ve also made 4 quick backgrounds matching the UI controls from images 2 and 4, and the instrument picks a random background when you open it, so it’s kind of fun to just open it.
bk0
bk1
bk2
bk3