Sample Relay Challenge (Max's Bentley Piano)


@MaxMcGuire I like No3, I just like to see the inner workings of a piano lol


There you go :slight_smile:



I’ve made the stereo tracks and normalized everything the best I could with the time I had:
Also, here is the instrument with the 2 new pics:


Looking very nice!

I am torn between the second one (with the black keys just poking out and ‘Bentley’ in the top right hand corner) and the first one from your more recent post.

I’m not sure the very last one (with just the tuning pegs) works so well as that part of the original image was not in focus due to the depth of field I was creating with that particular shot.

Looking super! :slight_smile:


When do we think we can get this submitted to the Pianobook website?


glad to see some movement on this! I can’t use Kontakt, so…oh well.
I would be very interested to know which samples you chose in the end and how you organized the release triggers and maybe I can assemble an alternate version of the piano in my Studio One Editor. This can be exported in a format that is legible to other anti or non-Kontakt users.
I have the tools for batch processing now and can export the samples again if anyone would like me to.
: )


Hard to say. At this rate I wouldn’t dare to guess that, but I hope it’s done and tested before xmas,…

@JustLisa I just picked the files not marked as ALT or REJECTED.

If I find time I’ll cut the files next week, but I’m afraid I can’t promise anything.


the ALT files were the ones I couldn’t decide were the correct ones or not – a careful decision needed to be made for each of them.
I’ve been working on it again and have chosen based on more mature listening skills and better understanding of the process and finished product.
I will upload files – finished this time, bounced to stereo where appropriate – when I get to that point.

I need a favor: Kate. All the Kate with counting and clicks and everything. Would somebody please mix down some full length WAV files for all of them? They aren’t in the zip file that way. I realize, belatedly, that this would make my process easier!
: )


link to new zip file of organized samples including a midi file to indicate where to slice them.

No release triggers, I haven’t gotten to that yet, but I plan to.

there is a terrible lack of consistency in volume in many of the notes and layers. Not sure what to do about that. It got worse when I normalized them just to hear what they sounded like that way. Enclosed files are just bounced (including the 414s as stereo files this time) with out any processing.


Nice! I just downloaded and loaded it into Cubase.
The midi idea is a clever one if you ask me :+1: It took a bit to sync it with the audio files, but importing everything at 48k/24b/80bpm it looks like this, so I think it’s ok, although I may need to move it a bit more.

About the volume issue, recently I made a little experiment with Ozone 8 Elements, tweaking the limiter speed and range to match a certain level of LUFS when I have very different energies coming from different VIs, so I’m thinking that something like that could help, but I don’t know for sure if that’s a good approach. I’m just kind of obsess with loudness.
I’ll try tomorrow and report back.


Great to know about the midi! Turns out, I hadn’t paid enough attention to the starting point, so I’m very glad you were able to get it lined up. the first midi point should sit on the grid, and all the samples should line up so that they start precisely at 36000 samples behind, one quarter note, also on the grid. I placed them all individually. If the resolution in your photo is quarter notes, pull the samples back to be on the grid. The length was Christian’s directive in his video calling for help.

One note, A3, is completely out of phase in both quiet and loud layers.

I found a Logic using friend to render the Kate tracks for me. Release triggers are coming soon.

I did a lot of experimenting with Studio One’s normalizing behavior. Putting more about that in the general discussion thread.
: )


So, applying a limiter and bouncing the files does indeed improve the different note levels, although it needs more experimentation using more than one pass per file or section.
I’ve seen the other thread but not read it yet. Will do :slight_smile:

Oh, and I realized my project had a 3/4 tempo instead of a 4/4. I think the sync is ok now.



After some tests mixing limiter and general NR (just to avoid horrible noises) I got something that could work, but I need someone to listen to it because at this point I’m not sure if it’s too much or needs more tweaking:

Individual NR is still required, but the general noise is mostly gone and the levels sound ok.

About the midi, I didn’t found a way to convert it to hitpoints. Does someone know how to do that using Cubase?


Hey all.
Here is link to file for Release Triggers. Sorry it took so long. Stereo file is merged. There is a midi track again to assist.
I did not know what to do with the pedal noises so I have left them as is, but include them so you won’t have to hunt for them in the original file if you want them.
: )


Here is my version of Bentley!
All three round robins, two velocity layers and the release triggers.
Assembled in Studio One, but .multisample can be read by Kontakt and Logic and many other DAW’s sample instrument players.
I did a light pass of noise reduction. Tuned and leveled the samples. They’re kind of long, but another friend said he liked the sustain.
It plays too fast for Christian, but I made it with the response time I wanted.
Very curious what you think.
: )


Good to see some more progress on this! :slight_smile:

@JustLisa I am struggling to get Kontakt to read the .multisample file you have uploaded. Any ideas how to get Kontakt to play ball with this as I’m eager to try it out!


Apologies. I just had a friend try the file in Kontakt, Reaper and Logic and it won’t load into any of them! That’s just plain wrong and I have gone to Presonus forums to get to the bottom of it. FWIW, he says the samples sound good!
Thank you for trying!
I will be back with something that works soon, I hope.


I found that a .multisample file is in fact just a zip file. (if you add .zip to the end of the name, it will open). Inside are all the wav files and an xml file. Looking in the xml file, I noticed code like this:

	<sample file="04 E0 - 414 L1.wav" gain="2.5982868671417236328125" sample-start="30000" sample-stop="828000">
		<loop start="0" stop="0" mode="off"/>
		<key root="28" tune="1000.01336669921875" low="27" high="28"/>
		<velocity low="76" high="127" low-fade="15"/>

I noticed the codes “gain” and “tune”. Do numbers other than “0” mean that the samples were tuned and level matched inside the sampler, rather than as part of the wav file? I think I can translate the xml file into sfz for the sforzando sampler, but I’m not sure about the tuning and level matching.


yes. I tuned them and leveled the files in the sampler. I also adjusted all the volume fades for the layers to make smooth transitions.
I have another friend attempting to translate to EXS also.
I’ve also been told that my start points maybe did not translate correctly either.
Still waiting for info from Presonus forums and will be filing support ticket if I don’t get concrete info soon.
: )
thank you!


I have an SFZ piano coded using the samples from the “Bentley Four beta 1.1.multisample” you created. The samples sound lovely.
The one issue I have is how to replicate the tuning you did. I’m seeing a tune high value of “3000.011474609375” and a tune low value of “-999.9990234375”. I’m used to dealing with cents, which would be 100 cents per semitone. I’m not sure what these values represent. Do you have any insight? Thanks.